Intrusive thoughts & religious OCD (scrupulosity): When doing all the right Christian things makes it worse

When the intrusive thoughts won't stop. When prayer becomes compulsion. When you're doing everything "right" and still drowning.

This is one of those episodes where we go there... to the places most Christians are afraid to talk about. My co-host Jasmine shares her raw, unfiltered journey through intrusive thoughts so dark and perverse that she couldn't even be around children. Pedophilic imagery. Sexual thoughts. The kind of thoughts that made her question her salvation, her character, and whether God could possibly still love her.

And here's the kicker... she was doing everything right. Praying. Fasting. Deliverance conferences. Scripture all over her walls. But the intrusive thoughts wouldn't stop.

What we cover:

• The difference between intrusive thoughts and sin (spoiler: they're not the same)
• Religious scrupulosity: when spiritual disciplines and practices become compulsions that keep you trapped
• Why your brain attaches intrusive thoughts to what you love most
• The moment God asked Jasmine to stop striving and what happened next
• How rest (not more effort) became the pathway to freedom
• The dangerous assumption that your thoughts = your character

This isn't about tips to think more positively or trying harder. This is about a God who's more interested in you understanding His love than in you performing your way to freedom.

If you've ever felt tormented by your own mind, isolated in shame, or exhausted from doing all the "right Christian things" with no relief... this one's for you.

Your intrusive thoughts are not who you are. They're not sin. And they don't disqualify you from God's nearness.

Resources mentioned: Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) therapy for OCD

If you're struggling with intrusive thoughts or OCD, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional who specializes in OCD treatment. You don't have to walk this alone.

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Transcript

Intro: Breaking Free from Shame, Striving & Self-Doubt

Speaker 0:47

Welcome to the Christian Women's Journey to healing and identity in Christ. Here we break free from shame, striving, and self-doubt to walk in the freedom and intimacy with God that we were always meant to have. Hi there. I'm Melissa Chan, a Christian emotional healing coach with a PhD in developmental psychology. And here with me is my co-host Jasmine Garcia. Woo woo. Y'all already know her, you've already heard that our journeys and inner healing have been so similar that the Holy Spirit led us to do this together so that we can do this also with y'all. We don't show up here as women who have it all together. Nope, quite the opposite. We are healing in real time and just figuring things out along the way, and we wanna invite you along in that journey. So if you've ever felt unseen, stuck, or like there's something wrong with you, rest assured you're not alone. We've been there too. We're talking real emotions, real healing, and real Jesus. Yes. All right. So today, we'll be talking about OCD and, what it means to navigate OCD as a child of God. Now, OCD is obsessive compulsive disorder, and I. Think a lot of people have a misunderstanding of what it is. Mm-hmm. Some people think that OCD is just being a germaphobe and having to wash your hands a lot or going back home to check whether the door is locked several times. And those are some ways that OCD can show up, but that's not the only way. OCD has two components, the obsession and the compulsion. It's possible to have the obsession without the compulsion. The obsession is the intrusive thoughts. The, um, compulsion are the ritualistic behaviors that, people with OCD engage in to try to soothe those anxious thoughts. It helps. Temporarily, but those intrusive thoughts come back in and so they go back to engaging in those compulsions, hence what's called the OCD loop, and it creates this cycle that's really hard to get out of because it's so anxiety provoking. They understand that these thoughts aren't rational. In fact, it goes against their values. And yet the only thing that seems. A temporary relief is engaging in these compulsions. So the reason why we're talking about this today, we really wanna focus on talking about the intersection of those intrusive thoughts, shame, faith, and what it really means to have this sense of peace in God when your thoughts are just so loud. Jasmine had shared that she had gone through her own experience with intrusive thoughts, and I thought that this was something that I feel like some members out there are probably really struggling with intrusive thoughts and feeling a sense of shame and guilt that comes along with it. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your experience with those intrusive thoughts, what it felt like. What were those thoughts?

The Dark Reality: Pedophilic Intrusive Thoughts

Speaker 3 4:02

Yeah. My heart. My heart just started beating fast. I think this has been such a personal journey for me and, it was such a beautiful journey, but painful and just full of so many things. But I think, even just making this episode. Is something that I'm passionate about because I didn't even have language for what these intrusive thoughts were. Right. or that there was a diagnosis of any kind of what I was going through. Mm-hmm. In 2020, I started, uh, getting really, really heavy, intrusive thoughts, regarding, um. my sexuality. They were perverse in nature and, a lot of it had to do with pedophilia. I think that you were one of the first people that I ever told, I, I do

Speaker 4:46

remember, I remember you came to our young adult meeting one time. And as soon as you walked in, you, you were just breaking down crying, I remember. Yeah. Like coming up to you and just like holding you. Yeah. You, you like cried in my arms for a while. We didn't like really say anything and I didn't know what you were going through. Mm-hmm. I just could tell that it was something really heavy.

Speaker 3 5:09

Yeah. I think you gave me, I think it was, is it first or second Chronicles where it talks about Jehoshaphat. Mm-hmm. I remember finally being able to let someone in on what these intrusive thoughts were actually about. For a long time I couldn't say, oh, they were. Pedophilic, one, I'm like, people are not gonna want, want me to be around children. I just felt like people would view me in a, perverse way. Mm-hmm. Or like, what's wrong with her? Like, why would she be thinking those things? And believe me, I didn't even understand where they were coming from. It affected my relationships. Uh, I think I was telling you, with my little sister. Mm-hmm. I remember for a time like I just felt so afraid to be around children. I couldn't even, change a diaper. if I had friends who had children I never wanted to be left alone with children.

Why the Thoughts Felt So Real (Fear of Acting on Them)

Speaker 5:56

Can you explain a bit about why you felt fearful given those intrusive thoughts?

The Shame: "My Thoughts Are Who I Am"

Speaker 3 6:01

Because it's like, those thoughts make you believe that you're gonna act on them. Mm-hmm. they feel so real like the imagery is very vivid. it was like I would rather not be around children so that I could avoid any sexual thoughts surrounding children. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't only children, at some point, it was even animals. I was afraid to be around animals. Like it was just perverse. All around. For about a year I really struggled with those kind of thoughts. And I think for me, I was just bewildered because at that time, I wasn't engaged in any kind of like sexual immorality, you know? I wasn't. Watching pornography. I wasn't masturbating, I wasn't engaged in any form of sexual sin. I actually had committed to honor the Lord in that way. You know?'cause I came from a past where I lost my virginity at a young age. So at the time I was just like, where is this all coming from? This is so weird. And, it's still a lot of my peace. Yeah. No, I bet. And, and, and me being present with people I think everybody around me could feel just the heaviness. Yeah. Over me. They were just like RapidFire intrusive thoughts. Like they would happen all the time.

The Neuroscience Behind Intrusive Thoughts

Why Intrusive Thoughts Attach to What You Love Most

Speaker 7:06

There's so much shame and heaviness and guilt because. There's this underlying thought that my thoughts are who I am. Mm-hmm. Right? If I have these thoughts, there's a reason why I'm having them. Right. That's the assumption here. Yeah. And so when you're working off of that assumption, if you're having these intrusive thoughts You think it speaks to your character or some sort of flaw within you, A lot of people who struggle with OCD will go through a phase of that at, at the very least. for those of you who. Don't struggle with OCD. You might be thinking like, yeah, just simple. Just stop those thoughts. But these are intrusive thoughts, So if you're ever wondering why that is, like what's the neuroscience behind this? Not to bore you guys with it, I can go into detail, but, um, the simplistic way of explaining it is that your brain's alert system is really. Overly sensitive and going into overdrive, so your brain's alert system is just going off all these anxious thoughts just start firing. Like something's wrong. Fix it. Fix it right now, you know? Yeah. the intru thoughts usually attach itself to something that you deeply care about. You mentioned that you love children, and I've seen Jasmine like work with children. She's amazing in children's ministry. You know, it's so confusing because it's like, why am I having these thoughts, when I deeply care about this thing? Yeah. Right. The thoughts are the complete opposite of what you deeply value. We were talking earlier about why is it that these intrusive thoughts attach itself to something that you deeply care about? I don't know for certain, but I think it's probably because if you care so much about something, you wanna protect it. You want to have some control in that process. so the brain is just worried about something bad. Happening to the thing that you care about, hence those intrusive thoughts.

Speaker 3 9:04

Yeah, it was also this desire to honor the Lord in purity. In every facet. In every way. You know, especially from like the history that I have with my sexuality. Everything that I was exposed to as a young child, like to me, coming to know the Lord, I valued, purity. I valued honoring the Lord in that way and even changing the trajectory of my bloodline to come, that all of these other patterns or all of these things that I engaged in before that there is newness in Christ. so yeah, it brought shame and it, it brought guilt and it, and even brought a lot of confusion of like, man, why am I having these things? Yeah. Like this, this really sucks. I felt like I was suffering. I felt like I was tormented. Like the word torment is like the perfect way to describe OCD.

Speaker 9:49

Yeah. Talk about some of the things that you tried to do to get rid of the thoughts or suppress them.

Everything I Tried: Prayer, Fasting, Deliverance

Speaker 3 9:55

Yeah, so, I did everything that I knew how to do, which was, spend time with the Lord. I would spend an enormous amount of time. Sometimes I would like be laid out on my floor. engaged in Self delivering rituals. You know, people will guide you through self delivering prayers, renouncing certain things. like if there are any open doors any kind of like generational things, I went down that path, seeking out deliverance through different ministries. I, uh, would put scripture all over my room. I would dance, how I, anything that I could do that I need to do, I did it like spiritually. Yeah. sometimes I would just recite scripture over and over. I think that was a form of convulsion for me. Yeah.

Speaker 10:38

To try to get rid of, of anxiety. Anxiety associated with it.

Speaker 3 10:41

Yeah. And, uh, and just even wanting to find, freedom from that because I didn't feel free at the time. Right. With all of those thoughts, I felt kind of surrounded by them. like there was no escape. No escape. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 10:53

Yeah. So it seems like you took everything in your arsenal, which included things that people maybe have told you are good to do. Yeah. Spiritually, things that you've learned within church, like. Prayer, you know? Yeah. Um, and even just scripture speaks to taking your thoughts captive, right? Yeah. You tried all of that and yet the intrusive thoughts didn't go away. How did it make you feel at that point? And what were some of the thoughts going through your head? I

Speaker 3 11:22

think I felt like defeated. I think there was a moment it's very pivotal, and it was, uh, Thanksgiving. I. I was trying my best to be present with my mom, with my sister, or with my family. Mm-hmm. I love Thanksgiving. I love Christmas. It's my favorite time of the year and the entire time I just kept going from the living room to the bedroom and I was just like, call out to Jesus. And I was like, man, like, I was trying to like. be faith filled, you know? like I believe who you say you are, you know? Yeah. And, uh, even say who I am in him, I was at the end of myself, know? things didn't shift in that moment, it felt like moments of joy and peace were robbed, you know, with my family. Yeah. And nobody knew The heaviness that I was dealing with, nobody knew the things that I was struggling with I was afraid too of like, what, what would they think? Like how would they see me?

Speaker 12:15

Yeah, and I, I think that's a valid. Thought because not many people understand OCD. Yeah. And a lot of people do operate out of that assumption of if you have this thought, then it says something about your character. But with OCD, that assumption just goes out the window That does not apply.

Religious Scrupulosity: The OCD No One Talks About

Speaker 3 12:32

Which is something that I'm still coming to learn, because for a very long time, My thoughts did hold a lot of value. Of like who I am as a person and what does that mean about me, you know? It was just this feeling of I don't know what else to do, I feel very alone in this struggle and it almost felt like I was. Perishing in it, I wasn't having any kind of suicidal ideation or thoughts, but it felt like I was suffering very deeply and like I found no comfort I could find moments where I would find relief, but it was temporary far, far in between. I had more intrusive thoughts than I had a sound mind at that point.

Speaker 13:08

Yeah. did you feel like having those thoughts and then doing everything that you possibly could, doing all the right things. and yet the situation not changing. Do you feel like it affected your relationship with God at all or how you felt like God saw you?

Speaker 3 13:24

it revealed the ways that maybe I didn't understand who I was in the Lord or how much he loved me and how much is grace was sufficient in my weakness. there were things that it exposed in that time. That's what kind of shifted things for me, in terms of how I was operating and my intimacy. So it did change it, I think, for the better. cause I'm grateful now. it sucked then. Yeah. You know, but I'm grateful now because I feel, so loved and I feel so cherished by him. Because he really didn't leave me. and I think that's the biggest, thing that I probably feared at that time, what does this say about who I am and him, or my salvation or my sanctification, I just don't understand, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 14:05

Something that I tell. Some of my inner healing clients is that in order to experience this truth of God, for instance, God will never leave nor forsake you. One of the best ways to experience that is confronting a fear of some sort that you think that if I do this, then God will leave me. If I don't do this enough, then God will leave me. So I think with the. Intrusive thoughts. You kept having them in spite of your best efforts, and you still felt God with you. Yeah. That is like, putting flesh to the word right. You're able to experience his truth. It's something that you didn't just believe or didn't just know in your head, but you got to experience it at one of your. Lowest tormenting moments.

The Turning Point: "Be Still and Know That I Am God"

Speaker 3 14:55

Yeah. And I, you know what? There's moments where, you know, I think we can talk about it, like where the word becomes alive. Mm-hmm. To you. Yeah. And where you feel like, man, I've read this passage over and over, but I just feel the Holy Spirit on it and he's speaking to me. During that time I, I really resonated with the passage of the leper who came to Jesus. I remember reading that and weeping at that time where he was like, will you make me clean? If you're willing and able, he's like, I am able. And the part that got to me was that Jesus touched him. I remember weeping at that time, reading that because I felt like it was coming to life. with the intrusive thoughts, I felt like the leper. the state of my mind, just felt like it was hijacked with perversion, so, I resonated with the nearness and the touch of the Lord. Yeah. And his willingness to, to come close. Even when I felt Unworthy of it. because of the nature of the intrusive thoughts

Speaker 15:44

mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. yeah. Some of the things that you had described, it reminds me of religious scrupulosity. Yeah. I know that everybody's OCD experience is a little bit different. this was yours in terms of your intrusive thoughts had to do with, sexuality. but a lot of people don't even know that OCD could also be tied to religious thoughts. Yeah. Which is even crazy to think about because it can feel. Holy. for those who don't know, scru velocity, is when those intrusive thoughts are related to faith, it's when you have all these anxious thoughts concerning. Basically like your salvation. Are you good enough? Are you doing things right enough? and there's always this fear that God's gonna leave you. There's always this sense of guilt. some of the, I. Thoughts that might come up, for instance, is, did I, do the unforgivable sin? Did I sin and not realize it? did I not pray hard enough? Did I not read the word long enough or did I not recite enough scripture?

Speaker 3 16:49

Did I really confess that sin the right way? It's always about like the right way or the right thing to do.

Speaker 16:54

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So those are the, obsession portion of it. The compulsion is engaging in spiritual disciplines or like all the spiritual things. That's why it's so confusing, right? Yeah. For someone who struggles with scrupulosity, you might not even know it because you feel like you are doing all the right. Things just like in Jasmine's case, she was going to these deliverance conferences and ministries and praying and crying out to the Lord and posting up scripture all throughout the room, you know? these are all good things.

Speaker 6 17:28

Yeah.

Speaker 17:29

talk to us a little bit about where was the turning point? Like when and how did these thoughts finally start subsiding?

How Rest (Not Striving) Brought Freedom

Speaker 3 17:37

I remember spending time with him and I just see this limp soldier and I'm listening to this like worship song called, and it's talking about like the soldier. That's just like, I've gotten to the end of myself. He just wants to be like submerged in, basically in the Lord. to regain his strength. And when I'm hearing that song, I just see an image of like a limp soldier. And I just had a, knowing that it was me and I could just see like the limp ness. Like this person had like, fought the fight and they were just like, they, they're coming back. They're, I just, I, if, if it was like a war movie, it's like person coming back, with like a bunch of like marks and stuff. Mm. Just super ragged. And then I just see these two big, beautiful hands just scoop up, this limp soldier. And in my heart I felt the Lord was like, be still and know that I'm God. Hmm. Re basically relinquish everything that you're doing. And I had a deep knowing that my freedom and my healing would not come in the way that I thought it would come. Like it wasn't gonna come through going through all of these ritualistic things, like going to a deliverance conference or doing this, that he was gonna show me a different way. Right. and so I stopped engaging in all of that I just took a month with the Lord where I wouldn't address, what I was thinking. And little by little it started to break its hold I felt like I started to find healing and freedom in that kind of like stillness and disengagement. I didn't have the language of this diagnosis and I didn't even have, the tools that were required mm-hmm. To get out of the OCD loop. But what the Lord was leading me to, I would later discover, was actually, What is it called? Uh, ERPP,

Speaker 19:14

exposure and Response. Response Prevention. Prevention.

Speaker 3 19:18

Yeah. Which I didn't even know was a thing. it wasn't until I found out that, you know, OCD, it doesn't have to just be external. It could be it's internal, it could have intrusive thoughts, and then the compulsions could also be internal as well. I just felt like the Lord had led me through that, and then he exposed what I was going through.

Speaker 19:35

Yeah. I think it's amazing that God had given you that insight.

Speaker 5 19:41

Yeah.

Speaker 19:41

To just let go and I like that you described it as my healing came. Through a way that I, didn't think it was going to come through. Like you thought that healing would come from doing more spiritual things and making yourself Quote unquote clean, But God's response was, I'm taking you as you are. I need you to just rest in me, and I will make you clean. Mm-hmm. I will have these thoughts dissipate over time.

Speaker 3 20:09

Exactly. I love that you said rest in me.'cause that's really what came. There was this like, wave of peace that came over me, you know? Mm-hmm. and it's been long lasting, the thoughts are far and few in between now. Mm-hmm. Whereas before it was like I couldn't go a day and, or maybe even sometimes hours without them, even engaging in conversation. It was just like room, you know? Yeah. And it was like, it would keep me from. Being present, and then I would feel like I would need to address it at the moment. Mm-hmm. Because if I didn't address it then, or repent of it or do all these things, you think of like, well, let me repent of this. The more I repent, the worse I felt. Mm. You know what I mean? because to me, repentance became a compulsion. Yeah. To address the depraved nature of those thoughts.

Speaker 20:49

I think this brings up a good point of how we as humans focus so much on the behavior, doing the right things. Yeah. But God is more interested in, in internal transformation. so repentance and reading the word and deliverance, these are all good things. They're great behaviors, you know. But God's emphasis is on first. Let me make sure that the heart is right and focused on God. that's all he's asking. If you just cry out to him and if you believe in faith. That somehow, some way he's gonna do. Then he will. It might not be instantaneous. Yeah, it might be, but it might not be. But he will heal you somehow. Yeah, That's what it means to believe in faith. We don't have. Evidence quite yet. If we have evidence based upon how God has moved in the past, that's called trust.

Speaker 6 21:43

But

God's Priority: His Love Over Removing Thoughts

When Striving Reinforces the Exhaustion

Speaker 21:43

faith is taking a look at our situation, the impossibility of it, which is in this case, these intrusive thoughts will not go away no matter what it is I do. Mm-hmm. No matter every spiritual weapon I've thrown at it. They will not go away. Yeah. This is my reality. Mm-hmm. But I also believe in faith that this is not always going to be my reality because God reigns above it. And so I don't know how, I don't know what the timeline is, but I'm believing in God's character and who he is and how much he loves me, that he is going to do something for me on my behalf. He is going to do this. That is the faith that it takes. it's just coming to the end of yourself, which God graciously brought you to.

Speaker 3 22:29

Yeah. And, uh, I think it was necessary. Mm-hmm. You know, it was necessary for me too. I hope I don't say necessary. And it has a harshness to it because it wasn't harsh. It was mm-hmm. Necessary. because I, I've said it on this podcast before, like, I'm so happy that healing did not happen immediately in this area. because if it would've happened immediately. Then I wouldn't understand his love for me the way that I do now. Yes. You know? Amen. he was more concerned about me understanding the depths and the heights and the width of his love than he was in removing those unwanted thoughts. that's the gem and the treasure and the wisdom that I leave with from. The battle, which was surrendering in the battle. and that's what. gives me victory moving forward is knowing that I'm his and that I'm loved.

Speaker 23:14

I had this random thought the other day where while driving and then all, I always have deep thoughts while driving. Yes. The

Speaker 3 23:21

car is wholly okay. Yeah. So I had this, I heard someone say, I heard someone say like, I'm a fan of making the car. My sanctuary. Oh

From Doing to Being: Uncoupling Performance from Love

Speaker 23:33

yeah. So I, while driving, I remember just thinking like, well, I'm so glad that in the time when I was striving so much, yeah. Thinking that if I strived in faith and tried harder and. Built up spiritual maturity to my understanding at least. Yeah. Then God would reward me with, well done, my good and faithful servant, and it didn't come. I remember at the time going through all of that, I was just almost like the older brother of the prodigal son just like, come on God, like mm-hmm. I've been doing X, Y, and Z. I've been, I've been praying, I've been fasting, I've been blah, blah, blah. Like, when are you gonna deliver me out of this? When is the struggle gonna stop? Yeah. Like, I see so many people surpass me. Right? These are thoughts that I wouldn't have vocalized out loud, you know? Yeah, yeah. But these were thoughts that I had, when God was emphasizing rest, and I was like, okay. Not like I give up, but I surrender. I'm like, I can't keep on doing these things at the rate that I've been doing them. I am exhausted. And when I finally did that, yeah, that's when God started moving in very powerful ways. And I started experiencing his word like living, breathing word in my life. Wow. And I remember as I was driving, I was like, you know. I'm so glad that God didn't intervene when I was doing because if he did, it would've reinforced my doing. It would've perpetuated the exhaustion. Mm-hmm. That I felt, because if God said, well done, my good and faithful servant because of all that I was doing, then it would necessitate more doing. Mmm. But in getting me to stop in the same way that for you, God was like, you know, just rest, just rest in me. you learned to uncouple the association of doing with earning something from God. Mm-hmm. And now it's just being. And receiving. Mm-hmm. Something from God, not because of anything you are doing, but because of God's love for you.

Speaker 3 25:42

Yeah. And that's the hardest journey, I think. Mm-hmm. As a believer because we're operating out of doing our whole lives. Yeah. To, having it a whole different way of like, I'm a human being and I get to receive from my creator, Obviously in receiving there's an outpouring of like, I wanna lavish him.

Speaker 26:00

Exactly.

Speaker 3 26:00

You know? Then you

Speaker 26:01

start engaging in the behaviors that you were striving so hard to do that was causing exhaustion. Now it's from a sense of freedom. It's from a sense of your identity as a child of God. Yeah. It's freeing and it brings joy. It brings peace. As opposed to before it was draining those same behaviors.

Message to Anyone Struggling with Intrusive Thoughts

Speaker 3 26:22

Draining. Yeah. Because they were, and we've talked about it before, they were being motivated by something else, right?

Speaker 26:26

Yeah. Yeah. Let's say that we have a sister in Christ who is struggling with intrusive thoughts right now, whether that is dark depraved thoughts or religious group velocity, what would you, what would you say to her right now?

Your Thoughts Are Not Sin

Speaker 3 26:41

I would say that you're not those thoughts. And that the pathway to being confident of that will come through, like seizing. Mm-hmm. Um, it will come through just laying down your arms learning. To not try to figure out what every single thought means. or to even try to do everything to get rid of them or suppress those thoughts. And when you find yourself in that place. you'll coast. and what I mean by coasting is for some reason I see like a jet ski. Mm-hmm. You know, like, kind of like coast, you know, and there's speed in that, you know, I think with intrusive thoughts. There's a lot of like bumps along the way, and then you're like picking that up and you're picking that up and your, your arms become so full. Mm-hmm. your load will become lighter. And so I know it's hard and I know that sometimes it feels like it's hard to disengage from that. And, I know how hard it is to believe that. You're not what you think. But I pray and I hope that as we've talked about this and, um, I just would understand God's love for you in a greater measure, despite the intrusive thoughts that you're having. And I pray that even as you're viewing this, that you would just feel. His nearness and know that he's not left you at any moment, at any time. Like he's right there, right next to you. And he just desires to, be with you those thoughts don't disqualify you from being near to him.

To Church Leaders: How to Support (Not Shame)

Outro: Real Emotions, Real Healing, Real Jesus

Speaker 28:08

Your intrusive thoughts are not sin. Your intrusive thoughts are not who you are. Your intrusive thoughts do not affect God's love for you in any way, shape or form. Yeah. you are not too broken and you are not irredeemable. God is so much bigger and he's compelled to move and love for you. I just want to leave y'all with Romans 8 38 to 9 39 for I'm convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth. Anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus, our Lord. So I know it feels dark. I know it feels like these thoughts in this cycle will never end. I know that Jasmine has walked through that she's a living, breathing testimony of God's faithfulness to her that there is no thought too dark, there is no cycle too deep that God cannot break you out of. So keep believing in faith. Stop striving and just rest in him. And it's okay if you have questions or doubts. Just cry out to God and say, help with my unbelief. Yeah. You know, and he's good and gracious and he will. So I hope that this resonated with you if, especially if you're struggling with intrusive thoughts and compulsions, I pray that this gives you a sense of new found freedom and hope. For those who aren't struggling with OCD but are listening to this, maybe you're a pastor or on leadership or just a brother or sister in Christ. I hope that you begin to understand that God's grace is sufficient, truly for people who are struggling with OCD, that their thoughts. Aren't an indication of what's happening in their hearts. So let's lay off the guilt, lay off the shame, and receive them with God's love and God's grace and walk alongside them. Because struggling with OCD can be so isolating as Jasmine had. Expressed, she felt like she couldn't tell anybody I think it's so important to create these safe spaces for people who are struggling and not push them. To engage in more spiritual disciplines just because it feels like the right thing to do, sit and discern what does God want to speak to this person, and what does God want to do in their life right now? What do they need? So that's my encouragement to you, and we thank you so much for listening to this. Tell us about your experience, maybe what you learned about this that you didn't realize before. And, uh, follow me on Instagram at Mel Chay. Until next time, keep it real with real emotions, real healing, and real Jesus. Bye.